Hi Guys – CJ here. Hope you are all enjoying your week. Can you believe it’s March already? Would you hate me if I asked how your goals for 2010 are coming along? Ok, I won’t ask then. I’ll leave the tough love to he at him-dot-com; he’s much bigger and scarier than me. Today’s instalment is a bit on the lengthy side so you might want to grab a cuppa and get comfy. It may also be a little ‘girly’ (depending on your point of view), so some of you alpha-male-types (we love you) may prefer to watch some monster truck action on cable instead. Or, you could stick around and get in touch with your feminine side.
On with the show (as he says)…
A Five-Year Lease
Last week, I bumped into an old friend of mine, Fiona, who had just returned from the UK. We found a café and sat down for a coffee. After all the essential catch-up questions were out of the way, she passed her iPhone across the table to show me a photograph of her fella back in London. Phwoar. He will hitherto be known as Gorgeous George because God was clearly showing off when he made that man. What jealousy? Am not, you are.
“You must be so happy to have found your Mr Right,” I said, reluctantly handing back Gorgeous George. I wondered if he sometimes finds it irritating to be so good looking. Does he get hit on, like, everywhere? Does it take him half an hour to buy a newspaper because the shop assistants are fighting over him like he’s the last chocolate muffin at an Overeaters Anonymous conference?
(politely laughs) “He’s not actually Mr Right but he’s certainly Mr Right Now. He has another two years before he has to go.”
“Go where?” I knew it was too good to be true. Poor Gorgeous George must have a terminal illness. Or maybe he’s on leave from the British Secret Service and in two years he will disappear into obscurity leaving behind only a toothbrush, some Calvin Kleins and a woman who will never be satisfied again.
“In two years’ time George and I will have been together for five years. That’s usually enough for me. I have a five-year(ish) rule so I’ll have to let him go. He knows. It’s okay.”
“What?”
“You know: a five-year rule.”
“No. I don’t bloody know. Is this some kind of weird new-age London thing?”
“Don’t be stupid. It’s just the way I do relationships. Five years and then it’s All Over Red Rover. Time to move on.”
“You’ve been eating beef over there, haven’t you?”
“What?”
“You’ve got that bovine spongiform thing. You’ve turned into a Mad Cow.”
“Look. If you could stop freaking out for a minute, I’ll explain my relationship philosophy. All right?”
“All right,” I said, unconvincingly.
Separating Facts and Beliefs
“Okay. First of all, I want you to let go of all your Disney Channel beliefs about love, relationships and marriage. Just bundle them up and put them on a shelf for a moment so we can start with an unencumbered mind.”
I comply. Kind of.
“Now. What is left? What are the only givens here? Well, there is man and there is woman. The same yet opposite. Sometimes, when a man and woman come together they will produce a child. Oh, and there’s death, of course. Those are the only facts: man, woman, babies, death. What human beings choose to do with those facts is completely arbitrary. There is actually no universally successful paradigm for the man-woman relationship. If there were, it would be the same throughout the world. But it isn’t. Because conditions are different throughout the world. It is the environment that determines which model is the most practical to adopt in that particular place at that time.”
I’m starting to feel like I’m in a lecture. An interesting lecture… but a lecture nonetheless. Part of me feels like I should be taking notes.
More Than One Way to Skin a Cat
“For example, polygamy is most prevalent in Africa where the economic system is primarily based on human resources. The more wives and children a man has, the more labour (and kin relationships) he controls. Alternatively, in societies where the economic system is based on land or other forms of private property (eg: Western societies) monogamous nuclear families are the most common. Polyandry (where a woman can have more than one husband), is usually adopted for practical reasons such as when it is common for a husband to travel away from his family for long periods – for example, in the Himalayas.”
“But what about the Mormons? They live in a Western society with a modern, capitalist economy.”
“That’s true. There are an estimated 30,000 Mormons practising polygamy today, mainly in Utah. However, polygamy invariably exists in Western society only as a result of religious doctrine, not economic expediency.”
“You’ve done your homework,” I commented, impressed. And a little weirded out.
“This isn’t the first time I have had this conversation. Personally, I don’t find polygamy appealing and I have some grave misgivings about its inherent gender inequity. However, my point is that there are many different ways to construct the man-woman relationship model and they are all based on beliefs rather than a set of universal rules. Even the fact that you and I are expected to embrace monogamous marriage is a byproduct of our upbringing. Had we been born in a different part of the world, we would be expected to accept a completely different model of ‘marriage’ as our ideal.”
Saying “I Don’t”
“Okay. So traditional marriage is a social construct. Why reject it, though? What’s wrong with it? Doesn’t it work?”
“I’m not rejecting it. I’m just saying that it’s not right for me.”
“Um, that’s called rejecting it.”
“Okay. So I’m rejecting it. On a personal level I’m saying that it’s not for me but I also think that, in some ways, our modern Western society has outgrown it. It’s not actually working for (many of) us anymore. It’s not making us happy.”
“But I know lots of happily married people!” I protested. Fiona raised one eyebrow. I wish I could do that.
“Look at the facts. Thirty-three per cent of marriages now end in divorce and we can only guess how many of the remainder are actually happy; many couples stay together for the children’s sake or because a divorce would devastate them financially. I suspect that living ‘happily ever after’ is the exception, not the rule.”
A Discontinued Model?
“Society has changed so women don’t need to be married anymore. In the past, most women relied on marriage for financial security. Remember, it wasn’t until 1972 that Australian women received equal pay for equal work. Nowadays, women are better educated than ever before and are able to financially support themselves. They have also been granted the same legal rights as men.”
“The introduction of reliable contraception in the 1960s also had an impact. Women are now largely in control of their own fertility. They can choose to delay childbirth or prevent it altogether. Monogamous marriage provided the ‘ideal’ nest for childrearing but women’s needs have changed. They are also taking responsibility for their own sexual fulfilment; they are no longer content to just lie back and think of the ironing.”
“I believe that many marriages fail not because people don’t ‘work’ at them hard enough, or because they chose the wrong person, but because we are still applying an outdated and redundant model to a society that has transformed itself immensely. That is, the environment and the collective mindset have changed but the model hasn’t.”
Just Desserts
“Okay. So society has changed, our needs have changed and therefore the whole monogamously married forever thing should change. But, surely, when you meet your soulmate you will want to live with him for the rest of your life?”
“Actually, I don’t believe that there is only one person with whom I’m supposed to spend my life. Nothing kills a woman’s libido faster than a monogamous relationship.”
“What? What about him? Are you out of your freakin mind?” I asked, desperately pointing to her iPhone containing Gorgeous George.
She smiled and held up a fork with a huge chunk of chocolate cake that was, ironically, called ‘Mortal Sin’.
“Ok. We all like chocolate cake, right? The smell, the texture, the taste, the way it coats our tongue. Part of its appeal is its limited supply. We restrict it to an occasional treat because if we didn’t our arse would need its own postcode. Well, what if it was the only food you could have? All around you, people are eating baked cheesecake, coconut macaroons, friands, tiramisu … and there’s you, stuck with your boring old chocolate cake. There’s nothing wrong with it, it’s just always the same, same, bloody same!”
“That’s one reason why I swap every five years. I relish George because I know that he won’t be around forever. But there is more to it than that. I am constantly changing, growing and evolving as a person and my needs change accordingly. The man who suits me and satisfies me now in my early thirties is probably going to be very different from the man I will want to be with in my late forties. And I learn new things from every five-year man that I’m with. It helps me to look at things in different ways. To not become stuck in a rut.”
At this point, the conversation was making me feel a little uneasy. Or maybe, my conditioning (way of seeing the world) was making me feel that way.
Limited Options
“Okay. Time for a reality check: Fiona, you’re hot. And I mean that in a purely platonic sense because given the choice between you and George, I’ll take George any day. It may be very easy for you to trade-up every five years but that’s not the case for everyone. I have some single, female friends who would be thrilled to have sex just one more time before they die. They’d be overjoyed to become stuck in a rut.”
“Thanks. I think. Look, I believe this whole ‘rest of your life’ monogamy thing scares a lot of people off. Especially men. Maybe if your friends relaxed a little, stopped looking for Mr Right and opened themselves up to a bit of temporary fun with Mr Right Now, they would find themselves a lot more attractive to potential five-year men.”
The Times They Are a-Changin’
“But, of course, it’s not for me to say how people should run their lives or structure their relationships. As I have said, there is no universal right or wrong, only options that are worthy of exploration. However, it is fairly clear that things are changing. Every year, more people are living alone. Manhattan – where I lived for a time – has one of the highest rates of single-person households in the world.”
“I see the possibility of the nuclear family eventually being replaced, or at the very least challenged, by single-person family units which are individually independent but involved in both local networks and the global community. Our lovers will be welcome visitors into our lives but they will not (necessarily) be our ‘life partners’ – we will enjoy them but not be materially or practically entwined with them. It could be very liberating.”
“But what about children? Where do they stand in all of this?”
“The same principles apply. There is no universal rule because families are structured in different ways all over the world. Perhaps we need to re-examine some of our traditional ideas about what families ‘should’ be like and start imagining what they ‘could’ be like – to come up with models which are better suited to people’s needs today. We know that the nuclear family model is crumbling and that children are often caught in the middle so some creative solutions may be needed. If and when I decide to become a mother, I’ll choose the model which I believe will be best for my child.”
“And choose which five-year man will be the father?”
“Yep,” she smiled. “That too.”
She paused to sip her latte. It was probably lukewarm because we had been talking for so long. I studied her face for a moment. She seemed happy. Not self-righteously smug or arrogant: just calmly and quietly content. Perhaps she’s a great actress? Or not.
Hours after we had said goodbye, my mind was still uncomfortably full of Fiona’s words. I had enjoyed her company but I couldn’t shake off a vague feeling of uneasiness. It was like the residual memory of a particularly vivid and enticing dream that follows you throughout the day – exciting yet unsettling.
So …
What do you think? Does Fiona’s unconventional approach to life and relationships have some merit or should we have her tested for Mad Cow Disease? Are we ‘meant’ to be with one person for life? I know that’s what most of us are taught and are comfortable with, but is there any chance we’re wrong? Do you think she is selfish, deluded or enlightened? Or maybe something else? Do you think the traditional man-woman relationship is changing and in need of review? Or maybe that the tried and trusted model is fine but we’re the problem? Perhaps we’re slowly sliding into some kind of moral decay, mortal danger and eternal damnation?
Shit. Now I’m confusing myself.
While I’m the proud (and clearly boring) owner of two kids, one dog and one husband, my time with Fiona made me realise that, while my relationship model works for me, it would be ignorant, arrogant and possibly a little self-righteous of me to be critical of someone who thinks that ‘forever’ is simply too long. And dull.
Given a choice, what would your ideal relationship model look like? Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here – just personal opinions.
Can’t wait to hear your thoughts.
CJ xox
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{ 37 comments… read them below or add one }
‘Disposable relationships’? It’s so sad.
Ok once again Craig & Co have put up issues that are so relevent.
I will tell you my view – for those who care – with the provision that this is strictly my view.
There is nothing wrong with wanting Mr/Ms Right. To me they do not exist we are all on a pathway.
But monogamy and open relationships? You go to any forum and there is a war on between both camps.
The bottom line is you do what works for YOU. Sadly, people on both sides stick their noses in others’ relationships.
I know it sounds horrifiying to some if I state an open relationship works but sorry, I have seen lots that have been together over 20 years and yes they sleep around.
Yes there are disease issues. Yes there are trust issues. Yes it is annoying when like me you are single and you go on dates but they have a partner.
An open relationship is a real relationship and to judge it as not one is sticking one’s nose in others’ business.
But, and this is where the stones are thrown.
I think one partner for life is also good. It is a choice because all my energies would go to that person. Silly things like you will never be lonely and you won’t catch diseases are invalid arguements. If you love your partner and don’t want any other sexual contact with others, that is great.
I support both choices. Fiona is fine.
All it did was challenge your beliefs but in no way do you have to change. What’s wrong with being single in this life? What’s wrong with being in suburbia with fences and dogs and screaming kids? Nothing, we choose it, either way is valid.
I personally think society is getting it’s knickers in a knot because it has been brought up with one or two ways of living and Fiona challenges it. But at the same time challenge Fiona.
It’s all too much can’t we just accept each other, have our own boundaries about how to live, not hurt others or tell them what to do and if someone challenges us in any area, challenges our thinking, then we go, ok that’s good for you but not me.
Sadly no and I expect the monogamy vs open relationship crowd to come out and stick their noses in and bash each other on which one is better.
Let the games begin.
Pooh CJ now here’s a topic this lurker has to respond to! If Fiona exists, can I meet her? She sounds quite sorted. I have been conducting my relationships on a similar model – timeframes by accident rather than set design however (I do think a strict 5 years is a bit strange) – mine have ranged between 1-5 years.
While I have not personally rejected the idea of lifelong marriage (never say never), with each relationship’s passing I find myself more philosophically content, thinking ‘now I have the opportunity to meet other interesting people’ rather than ‘the end of a relationship means failure’, like society thinks we should.
I suppose we need to think deeply about our own opinions…not judge ourselves harshly by old rules – what really brings you contentment? If it’s marriage for 60 years, great; if it’s a different lover every year, fine and dandy -or hey, none at all, why not?
I love the sound of minds opening
I imagine Fiona will die a sad, lonely woman… just my opinion, here, no offense to your friend meant. And I worry for any children she may have because of her inability/unwillingness to commit to a lasting relationship for more than 5 years; what will she do if she has a child and her child turns five, trade him/her in for a different one?
It’s just that there’s nothing better in the world than the feel of your man’s arms around you – a man who knows you with all your faults and foibles, who loves all your great features and compliments them often, who knows all your crappy jokes and still laughs, who loves you completely for who you are and has done so for a very long time.
Hmmm, interesting!
Each to their own I think……………..but if you’re set on a 5 year relationship I think the other partner has to know they have a 5 year shelf life upon the mutual decision to whether they become an item or not. As for kids…………..after analysising it from a few angles I would say nadda.
Trish sorry but you have made a opinion when you won’t be there at the end of her life. How do you know she will be unhappy?
Yes, having a man (woman, pet etc) there for you is fine, but it’s not for everyone. Has Fiona challenged you Trish that you will attack her? Gets back to my point; why are you worried about Fiona when you are happy with your man? CJ has challenged your worldview but you need to step back and go, whilst your view is valid, that’s her, that’s you, if you are concerned about Fiona send her an email to see the error of her ways but you can’t change people and she may be very happy at the end of her life without the man.
Sorry CJ I just have an issue with passing judgements on others’ choices, it would be rude and wrong to say Trish is in the wrong for wanting to be with one person, but on the flip side, to attack because something does not conform to the views of self to me isn’t right.
Good on you Fiona. Good on you Trish. Love your choices but don’t judge others and live the way you want to.
*disclaimer for debate – Trish and Fiona have valid points I am not attacking their choices but rather stating that to assume Fiona is lonely and has made the wrong choice because her choice conflicts with the worldview of another to me is akin to forcing one’s personals values onto someone with little regard for being in their shoes.
Life challenges us when we see people not living how we expect.
There was a movie called “Sweet November” in which the female lead got a terminal diagnosis and decided to spend just one month each with a succession of men.
How interesting to calculate your love life in advance!
Maybe it’s a self-fulfilling prophesy for Fiona to get bored in 5 years, but if it’s working for her (and George) there’s no need to fix it, right?
If two guys were having this discussion, people would accuse ‘fiona’ of being a pig-maybe rightly so or not..
but in personal experience, I have seen a guy do that to his second wife after 6 yrs and both his kids from a previous marriage reacted badly: the daughter decked him and the son ran away for a couple weeks
Hmmm, saw my parent divorce when I was in my teens. So I decided I would wait for marriage til I met someone who I could reasonably see myself staying married to through the years and someone who would feel the same way about me. As a consequence, I didn’t get married til my early 30′s. However, we are going on 13 years of married life and I am happy I waited so long to meet Mr. Right. Is every moment perfect? Heck, no! It’s alot of work to have a successful relationship! But, we have fun together, can rely on each other, and look forward to the future, etc. I think CJ’s friend is denying herself the chance to develop a deep relationship with a man. It’s scary to trust someone that much and I have to wonder about her real motivations in keeping each relationship she has on a limited, superficial level.
Well, Fiona must be young! She sound intelligent, but immature at the same time. When I was 20 years old (trust me… a looonnnggg time ago) my Dad told me something that I have never forgotten. He said, “Victoria (me), you do not realize this but 10 years makes a huge difference. At 30, you probably would not choose what you chose today. At 40, you will question your 30/20 choices and so on. So the bottom line, is to choose well and if possible, without all of the emotional ‘stuff’ we sometimes attach to your decisions.’
At 58 (told you I was old), I value relationships a whole lot more. People are investments… investing five total years, knowing that you have a pre-plan exit strategy is just sad. Fun is fun… and while Fiona’s plan may ‘seem’ that of a free spirit, but in my humble opinion, I find it completely selfish and immature. When there is a breach in most relationships, there’s rarely not some extended relationships that are affecting. Parent, grand-parents-friend, all of those people are affecting. They lose something too…. As a caring, mature adult, I know that my relationship choices spill over into every part and person in my life. So… going into a relationship, knowing I am there to have fun, but with the total intent to basically, total that relationship based on a calender, is sad. I agree with a previous comment… Fiona ‘seems’ like a very enlightened women… ‘seems’ though is just that!
CJ,
Nice post.
Although, Fiona sounds like she may woke up with amnesia while watching Sex and the City and she’s now convinced she’s Samantha.
I would not dare tell any person how to live their life- as I believe the secret to happiness is best revealed by the seeker, not the bystander.
But I will raise a couple questions; food for thought, if you will…
• Why plan the demise of a relationship (i.e. 5 years)- doesn’t this create a “rut” of sorts? If being easy and breezy is the point then why restrict yourself….? Why end a relationship with someone that makes you happy for your own guideline…. Why stay with a man for 5 years if he doesn’t make you happy?
• Why stop with men… why not only keep friends for 5 years too? Careers for 5 years? Aren’t they just as disposable… are we expected to have things in common with the same friends and career if we’re so evolutionary? (ok, I know that seems silly but why single out one area of your life that needs to be ever-changing?)
• I do agree, we are constantly changing, growing and evolving throughout our lives… so who’s to say that 52 year old me won’t have evolved into someone who feels like I really let Gorgeous George get away… he made me laugh and now he has 2 kids in university and a lovely wife…. And I have no one to say “hey, remember our trip to Venice, when the waiter sang the menu to us every night… I wonder if he’s still there, it’s been 11 years… I’d like to go back one day… wouldn’t you?”
• And by-the-way, in the business world… 33% is not a success, it is a not even half… I don’t think that Western society should scrap the whole concept of marriage- just because 90% of people like McDonald’s don’t mean everyone should start eating McDonalds… (Actually please don’t!)
Seriously though, ideal relationships do not exist… All relationships require maintenance and TLC…. (all friends, colleagues, & spouse/ life partner /etc)
My secret is not elaborate time restraints and fooling myself that I’m are in full control….
It is being meand allowing the other person to be their self,
if I listen and pay attention- a person tells who they are and what their priorities are many, many times- in actions and words…
I try to keep an open dialogue and recognize that I will care about many people that will not necessarily be the “Right” person for me… and that’s ok, I will be richer for knowing them and loving them even if its brief
There will be many great people but the “Right” person requires no training, no one sided compromises- the“Right” person meets me halfway, gives as much as they take and has a similar value system as me.
And there inlies… Utopia!!!
PS- Don’t tell Craig Fiona implied he’ll get sick of cheesecake
Thoughtful post,
Tami B
Wow…I would buy your friend a drink! and Krista too! Thanks for putting so eloquently what I have been doing for all my life. I am in my forties, have no kids and not in a relationship at the moment and am the happiest I have ever been.
My relationships have not been “disposable”, they have just run their course.
And as for kids…I can’t stand them! Yes, you heard me. I have no maternal intinct whatsoever.I like to think that some of us weren’t meant to breed. And no I’m not gay.
Trish…I have become too independant to think that the warm embrace of a man is the best feeling you can have. I can think of many other things that make me feel great that do not involve a man or woman; and their approval or dissaproval of me. If that does it for you then “all hail to you”. Enjoy what you have and try to respect other people’s choices.
It would be great for the general populous to try and make an effort and open their closed, little minds and see that long term commitment doesn’t “do it” for all of us.
Now…where do I find me a “gorgeous George” up here?
Fiona sounds like she’s got it all together – for her. Great in theory, but … does she live with Gorgeous George? It’s when people live together that it gets complicated, and your lives become entwined whether you want them to or not (and most people do want to share). People also want security, yes, often at the expense of growth and change and new ideas. But it doesn’t have to be like that.
And what about George? What if he believes she is the love of his life, and he does want to live with her forever? Saying you know the five year rule is is OK and coping with the breakup at the end are two different things.
I’d love to be able to come and go when I felt like it, but I can’t. The payoff is that when I need a shoulder to cry on or a mate to celebrate with, I’ve got one who cares. Life is a compromise a lot of the time. And I bet if Fiona’s employers all had the same rule (five years, or two years, and you’re out of a job because I want someone new and exciting in the office with new ideas) she might not be so happy!!!
I believe that there is substance in both what Fiona is doing, and of course the traditional relationship many of us have as CJ does. Neither will be right for everyone, and in realising that, people can take both more freedom and greater happiness.
I’ve seen so many women that I knew in my 20′s that were so particular about Mr Right that they wouldn’t move from the plan, only to result in that they are now in their 40′s, with few of them ever having had a serious relationship let alone a marriage. Don’t jump on this as I know that not everyone wants to be 40, married with kids… but these women did! In contrast, I was probably termed a little loose in that I wasn’t so fixated, had a few relationships that lasted up to seven years, and then finally got married for the first time at 35.
Like Fiona, I agree that we’re not the same person at 35 that we are at 25, many of us change and whilst many relationships work with the change, many obviously do not. So for me, I agree that one size does not fit all. Whilst I wouldn’t put a 5 year rule in place, and even though I’m happily married, I’d be happy and less conflicted by accepting that my life might have a series of monogamous relationships. I expect my marriage to last, but if for some reason it didn’t, I would want to move on, and say ‘next’. This doesn’t detract from the effort I am putting in, but sometimes people need to call time and move on. My happiness and hopefully that of my partner and family are what is most important, not just a notion of western social convention.
Karen
)
Hmmm…. CJ. You were always gonna open a can of worms with this post weren’t you? I understand Fiona’s perspective but I’m not a fan of the arbitrary five year ‘rule’… but then what would I know?!
Nice thought-provoking post.
I dont think Fiona will die a sad lonely woman.. she will probably die extremely contented that she was never held back by another person nor did she settle in her life.. but this isnt about what makes Fiona happy its about me.
Personally I dont think we have to have have ‘the one’ although that works for many and all of my family are happily married to one personally i dont want to compromise my goals, or loose my freedom to settle for ‘someone’. I dont do the Mr Five years, but I do the Mr 3 mths, Mr 6 mths however I FOR ME I would never have children outside of marriage as I believe (ideally) it is preferable to bring a child up with both role models and that both people when giving so much yourself would need another to rely on… Not to mention I would only have a child with someone I truly Loved.
Im not really the relationship type of girl, more than happy to just plod along donig what I can and achieving what I can.. I dont understand people that just settele and hook up for the sack of it..but I can understand that some must meet there soul mate otherwise why the hell would you both caring for someone else on a daily basis…
In regards to children thought
Hmmm, I think good on Fiona for knowing what SHE wants and having the guts to be open about it, but not trying to force her view on others. I don’t particularly think her strategy would work for me, but don’t see why anyone should judge her for what she’s chosen to do.
As for me? I like the whole idea of a nuclear family; husband, wife, kids and some pets…btu looking at the divorce rates and the experiences of people around me (family, friends, colelagues etc) I’m terrified at the thought of getting married. I’m scared that it wouldn’t work out, and what’s the point of entering something that’s pretty much sure to fail? Cynical, I know…but schmeh! (Strange too, since my parents have been married for over 30 years)
I agree with Michael! we need to stop being judgemental and let people do what is right for them without making them feel like outcasts..
But – if it were my choice – i’d go with things running their courses rather than preplanned timing.. and I’d be very careful choosing for my children’s lives.. i think though the most important thing is that children are in a happy family – rather than an unhappy “nuclear” family – no point in having it all “look” perfect if its a miserable environment
Another good post CJ!!!
Hey Guys,
I believe each to their own and as long as your not hurting yourself or others then go for your life.
The reason it would not be for me is that I would find it very sad to go through life and not connect to my Partner on a deeper level. I believe there is more to love than sex and companionship, my Husband is my best friend, he is my family.
We have had some of the hardest of times and have talked of divorce etc when we have been frustrated and exhausted of certain issues that have come up during our time together but at the end of the day we love each other and we are family. It takes a lot of courage, strength and determination to fix something that is not working properly but the rewards are endless.
I for one look forward to being a little old lady sitting with my Husband and reflecting over all we have done together and all we have meant to each other.
I think I would end up feeling very lonely if I based my relationships on the 5yr rule, I wouldnt open up fully as I would think why bother he will be gone in X amount of time.
Have a great day.
March 4, 2010
I refer to CJ’s comments:
Mormons, or members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do not take more than one wife. The vast majority of those who practise polygamy in Utah and the U.S. mid-west have never had any formal or informal association with the Church. Today polygamist organisations that occasionally make the news are not dissident wings of the Church.
Any Church member found to be practising polygamy would be excommunicated.
The term Mormon is a nickname applied exclusively to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members (see The Associated Press Stylebook). It is not accurately applied to any other person or organisation.
Sure, continue to entertain through your wonderful brand of media commentary. But please call these people what they really are: polygamists, polygamous groups rather than associate them with us.
Ken Gardner
What an incredibly selfish, egotistic, self centred woman!! Sorry CJ, I know she is your friend, but come on. Only a ‘beautiful’ looking person could have this kind of philosophy (sorry to all beautiful people, but this is not a slight on you). She is selfish to think that one of your ’5 year men’ could father her child/children. What about that man’s rights to his child, what about the child’s right to its father. This woman is shallow, has no level of commitment, is a commitment phobia and is moving through life, living on her obvioius very good looks. So she had invented this ‘philosophy’ to protect herself and has obviously convinced herself that this is the only way to have a relationship. She must have been incredibly hurt along the way and this way she stays in charge and in control of all future relationships. She is going to end up a sad and lonely old woman. Her looks will only take her so far. Man, this has pushed my buttons, hasn’t it?
No judgment here – whatever works for her I guess.
My feeling is though, that she talks the talk about being open but has she really ever been in love and loved someone unconditionally and with her whole heart – has she been vulnerable and given herself up to the abandonment that is real love?
If you are in love with someone, or love them deeply, you are incapable of ‘giving them up’ after only 5 years. In a ‘true love’ relationship, you haven’t even finished the honeymoon after five years!
I think she’s settling for a different man every five years. I admire her though for having the strength of her convictions and for having thought it through on an intellectual level so well. I just don’t think her heart is involved in these relationships. Her assessment is clinical, and emotions and love are the polar opposite of intellect and clinical thought.
But again, that’s her business. Whatever floats her boat.
My comments weren’t an attack on Fiona, just my own personal opinions as I said at the start and this is what CJ asked us to post.
I do think that someone who adopts Fiona’s lifestyle is more than likely to end up alone and I do think being alone makes most people sad. I described what works for me and what I feel is important and it has taken me two marriages to get here so I do understand the word disposable a bit!
And I agree with Heidi in that it would be nice if more people recognized that relationships come in all different shapes and sizes.
I am just very happy that I have found what works for me!
Dianne, Surely you do not have enough information from CJ’s post to assume that if there were children Fiona would intend to simply cut them off from each other when the 5 years was up. Isn’t it likely that the father and child’s relationship would be independent of her relationship with the father. Just as when traditional relationships come to an end and the parental responsibilities must be shared. To me, Fiona doesn’t sound like the type of woman to impose her relationship limitations on others, especially her own children.
Personally, although I admire Fiona’s ability to come up with a plan that works for her regardless of how she would be judged, I don’t know that the fixed time limit would work for me. I prefer to let all my relationships run their natural course, whether it be a night, a week , several months or year. I am open to finding somebody who makes me happy enough that I want to spend the rest of my life with them….in fact I hope he is out there somewhere. But the realities of past relationships have taught me that I will probably never find such a man and I have learnt to remove the expectations I used to place on myself and enjoy my free and independent life to the fullest.
I do wonder how Fiona can consistently find a man she can tolerate for 5 whole years at a time though?
Pssst. Hi everyone. I’m at work today but I’m sneakily checking in every now and again to read your awesome comments – don’t worry, I’m not a brain surgeon or an air-traffic controller (as if).
Please keep them coming. It’s great to hear all your different responses to the same conversation.
Hugs
CJ xox
Spot on Dianne
While I agree that relationships come in all shapes and forms, this woman has issues. Take relationships for what they are but who puts 5 year rules on them. Therapy anyone?
George must be equally shallow to be ok with his “use by date”. Good looks are great but warmth and a loving,stable environment are what children need not a mother crossing off the years on her calendar until her current relationship ends and the next begins.
Good post CJ, I think I know which of you is really happy!
Trish I understand it is not an attack on your views, they are valid, the main thing is you are doing what works for you, if Fiona ends up lonely, maybe, maybe not, you have found what works for me. And I agree with Heidi too, but there is always a throw back to try to replicate the comfort of marriage, monogamy and children, but that is as temporary as our human biology is.
Again, it is not a criticism of your views Trish, I just think Fiona is fine with what she is choosing and it does not mean she may be alone, who knows, and alone does not mean lonely.
It’s all too complex LOL but the main point is, I still think people should mind their own business about relationships they choose, but sadly in this society, and with Facebook etc, your relationship choices are public property and are often criticised.
One last point – I have known 3 people who claimed to be monogamous. I have caught all 3 while they had partners going home with someone else. Double standards annoy me.
Oh and Kyles agree with you totally.
Having just come out of a dysfunctional relationship my first thought is that 5 years is too damn long!! but maybe im more of a romantic than I thought cause I thought, well, what if you love him. “sorry mate I do love you but your expiry date has come up”. then again I know heaps of rotten couples who stay together cause ‘I love him’. hmmm I dunno.
but can I be first in line for gorgeous george when his date comes up? reminds me of an episode of Sex in the City – “you cant keep Mr Pussy – you gotta share him around!”
Oh…..where is the photo of gorgeous George….
Sounds a bit clinical to me…does she have a countdown or a quick final snog before the time is up!
Isnt it all about what makes you happy at any given time in your life. 1,5,20,60 years what does it matter.
CJ- well done yet again.. you “can of worms opener” you!
I love it, i am not sure that Fiona is a real person or just some fictional goddess what you have used to provide an example for this post, but either way.. it is great fun to read the responses to this.
I seem to change partners about every 5 years or so too, but haven’t ever thought it was because of a 5 year plan… and some of those, I still miss terribly… so to think of it in this clinical way disturbs me somewhat..
Do I have a subconscious 5 year thing happening here? Is every one of my relationships going to have a life span now? and yes, I have just counted up how long till 5 years appears on the horizon for the current relationship…
Will there come a time when Fiona can’t “pick up” a newbie like she used to? What then?
Does she start searching at 4 years and 9.5 months?
What if the relationship is going really well when his use by date is looming?
How destructive must this be on the other persons self esteem?
It is a really odd concept for me to grasp.. the fact that an obviously intelligent woman has given time to develop this kind of thinking..
Has it come from a previous hurt.. leave them before they leave me? Always give them the option of getting out and then I won;t fear being rejected..
Who knows… all i hope that Fiona finds someone one day that will allow her to enjoy a lifetime of joy… or that gravity is kind to her, or she finds a cosmetic surgeon with a loyalty scheme….
Great post CJ.. once again.
I once said to a guy that I don’t think I want children – but we will see.
He turned and said to me that “you need children so they can look after you when you get older, otherwise, you will get old and no one will be around to care for you – its a swap, you care for them when they are young, and they care for you when you get old – so you got to have kids one day, so you live a full life” he said.
It really got me thinking – it seemed true – selfish but true – a full life – no regrets. I wonder if by saying you only ever want change – you are effectively saying you are NOT not open to change, change within yourself…. You limit yourself by saying this don’t you?
Regards
LOL Jak, you are right, but the fear of rejection is very power because I have it. I destroyed my potential life partner’s relationship because of it and it’s ended up becoming a legal issue.
However, there are lots of positives to be taken away from this and Fiona, the main one is, if you don’t want to live like her don’t.
I wonder also if this thing would be an issue if it were applied to careers? We are obsessed with working in several careers over a lifetime and we complain we are bored when we are in a job too long. So does that mean it’s ok for a job but not for a partner to get bored and leave? Or change every few years.
Very challenging post CJ and great answers, there is just no right or wrong with this one.
Great post CJ. Certainly got the comments happening. The comments are nearly as thought provoking as the post.
The only thing selfish about Fiona is she would consider having children on these pretenses… and it is premeditated….
Fantastically thought-provoking post C.J. I love your contributions to Craig’s blog and I look forward to reading many more from you.
Good on Fiona, she seems to have her life all worked out to the nth degree but it dawned on me that perhaps she has never been in love – and I mean truly in love – in the sort of relationship where that unconditional love is reciprocated fully by your partner! I’m talking about the sort of relationship where you can’t ever imagine living without that person and you want to be with them all the time. As for even contemplating dumping a partner after 5 years purely because of a time limit, well it’s not on the agenda at all, it’s a totally alien thought if you are totally in love.
I have this special kind of relationship with my second husband of ten years – it’s precious and we both know it. It’s extremely rare to find your soulmate (most people don’t) and I appreciate every day we spend together (and so does he!) It took me 45 years ( I was married to my first husband for 20 years!) to find the love of my life and I’m not going to let him go any time soon if I can help it!
To me, it’s obvious that Fiona has never truly been in love and now I’ll make a very brash statement…….in my opinion, selfish people can never experience true love – they confuse ownership, possession and control with love.
Kathleen
What if it were a 5-year-contract with the option to renegotiate or renew? Stops complacency in a relationship if you know you’re coming up for a performance review. Stops you feeling trapped in the ’til death do us part’. Perhaps it’s a more sensible approach than making life long commitments that so many break with often devastating consequences. A middle ground, perhaps?
As for those who claim Fiona will be a sad and lonely woman because she isn’t committing to a life-long partner, what makes you think you’re going to die at the same time as your husband? Assuming he sticks around for that long and doesn’t run off to rediscover his youth and freedom in the meantime. Chances are, you will be widowed and spending your twilight years on your own. After relying on a partner for your happiness for so long, who do you think will be better equipped to live a full, happy, independent life on their own. You or Fiona?