He said, she said..
Yesterday I checked out a forum on another website (sorry). The discussion I took a peek at was basically a bunch of pro and anti Law-of-Attraction people taking swipes at each other; trading insults and running down each other’s respective beliefs, opinions and philosophies. Overall, pretty uplifting stuff. Not. They got kind of nasty and pretty personal. Abusive even. It makes me laugh when people who are (supposedly) all about self-improvement and changing the world, stoop to name-calling and trading insults. Morons.
Just kidding.
It amazes me how closed-minded some open-minded people are. Reading the discussion (a.k.a. slanging match) on the forum, a few thoughts and questions occurred to me:
1. The truth about truth
At what point do we recognise that we’ve become arrogant and self-righteous in our beliefs and ideas? For example, if we believe that we’re absolutely right about a certain issue (in a not-up-for-discussion kind of way), then don’t we close ourselves off to the possibility of gaining some new insight or learning another truth? Or perhaps learning the real truth? After all, is there any chance that we could be wrong and someone else right? Crazy thought I know but apparently it can happen. If, for example, you strongly believe in evolution or creation (either one – doesn’t really matter for this discussion) and you know that you’re right (you won’t consider another view – “talk to the hand”), doesn’t that make you somewhat arrogant? With some things we can’t really know (with absolute certainty), we can only know what we think we know. If you know what I mean. Perhaps we believe what we’re comfortable to believe? Perhaps we believe what we’ve been told we should believe. Perhaps we believe what our parents believe – because it’s easy and we tend to avoid hard. If we look at the various religions of the world, unless I’m mistaken, the whole basis of faith is believing in something that we can’t prove. If we could prove it then we wouldn’t need faith because we would have knowledge. With me? Then how can we be so arrogant, self-righteous and judgmental about something that we can’t prove? Something we don’t know for sure. We seem to find a way.
2. The (non)thinker
Something else occurred to me as I read the forum: many people don’t really think for themselves or truly search for, or discover, their own truths, beliefs and values. They simply adopt the thoughts, ideas and beliefs of others, becoming parrots who memorise and recite the mantras of their friends, gurus, teachers, parents, preachers and idols. They mindlessly adopt someone else’s thinking and language. “I’m not sure what I think, what do you think I should think?” While it’s (mostly) wise to listen to, consider and respect other people, it’s also good to think independently and to discover your own truth. To step away from the influences of others and explore for yourself. Or maybe, explore yourself. Away from the dominating and controlling parents or partner, away from the religious indoctrination and emotion, and away from the pressure placed upon you by so many different forces to think, believe and do things in a particular way. Imagine that you – yes the exact same you (same DNA) – grew up in a different culture, with different parents, different schooling, different friends and completely different influences. Would you have the same ‘absolute’ beliefs, ideas, values and knowledge that you do sitting in that chair right now? Absolutely not. It’s possible that alternative you could be arguing with current you (the person you are now) on an Internet forum from the other side of the world about your erroneous and stupid beliefs!
3. Cost-effective cloning
Simply adopting someone else’s ideas and beliefs isn’t learning; it’s laziness, apathy, indifference and perhaps even weakness. A cheap version of human cloning. Real learning and understanding comes from personal exploration and revelation. Agreeing with someone else is fine but not just because you like or respect them. Agree with them because you’ve considered and explored their thoughts and beliefs and you’ve learned the same truth for yourself. I have many friends and colleagues whom I respect immensely but disagree with often. I like them but I don’t necessarily like all of their ideas or agree with all of their beliefs. And that’s fine. I like it that we disagree. I like it that they challenge and teach me. Part of the human experience is to be comfortable being different, being wrong and making mistakes. I’m happy to have people challenge me (and they do often) as long as those people come from a good place; a place of logical thinking, humility and honesty. A place of mutual respect and integrity. I won’t discuss an issue with someone who is clearly emotional, irrational, defensive or reactive; someone who wants to ram their opinion down my throat at any cost. I am wrong 
often, I have made many mistakes and will undoubtedly make many more. I’m fine with that. It’s a pretty fundamental part of the human experience. When I stop making mistakes then I’m really in trouble because I’m dead. I choose to take risks, choose to seek my own truth, choose to share my ideas and thoughts (with willing readers) and am infinitely aware of my fallibility, my humanity and my numerous flaws. To me it’s tragic that so many people feel compelled to ‘believe what they’re told’ rather than being comfortable to learn and express their own truth. Blindly following someone doesn’t make you a student or a free-thinker, it makes you a cult-member or a sheep. “Baaah”. Explore the definition of a cult and you’ll realise that I’m not being facetious or provocative when I say that many programs, organisations, churches and even businesses are thinly disguised cults. They want compliance, obedience, commitment and of course, your money. And not too much independent thought.
But then again… I could be wrong
Even with what I write, don’t believe me because you like or respect me as a teacher or writer. Perhaps my truth is not yours. Maybe I’m wrong. But if you do agree with me, then do so because you have considered, explored and tested my thoughts and ideas and discovered them to be true for you. Think for yourself. Learn for yourself. Respect and listen to others but be you, not some nasty-ass replica.
And just think, all of that came from five minutes of reading a forum – good thing I wasn’t on there for an hour. Jeeez it’s busy in my head. Love your thoughts on this post and this topic.
Ciao.
* Let us know your thoughts on this post by clicking on the comment thingy and sharing from your own experiences or thoughts. If you’d like to receive articles like this automatically, simply click on the ‘subscribe to this feed’ thingy at the bottom of this post and become a subscriber.
Love this article? Sign up for my FREE Email Newsletter today to receive more articles like this, and my FREE Ebook!
Post Footer automatically generated by Add Post Footer Plugin for wordpress.
{ 41 comments… read them below or add one }
Hmmm…not too sure about this blog Mr Harper. Can I wait and see what the other readers think before I comment?
(X)
Hey…typo in point 3; “I won’t discuss an issue with….someone who wants to ram “there” opinion… Should read “their”.
It’s not that you’re wrong and I’m right…but I am!
You’re still close to perfect though, Mr Harper!
You do wonder if people who are so righteous in a forum are like that in the outside world? Like the horrible dictatorial boss who is actually the henpecked husband at home. It doesn’t need much guts to slang someone over the internet/phone/email. Maybe that is why these type of people hang out there? I think maybe they have forogotten some of the ten “Life Rules” that were “penned” so many years ago.
It has taken me half a century to realize that everything I have been taught is subject to scrutiny, and that most of it is perception. You are wise, and it is difficult for me not to just take your word for everything just because I agree with most everything you write. Thanks
This re minds me of a scene in Monty Pythons Life of Brian.
Brian – You are ALL individuals
Crowd – Yes, we are ALL individuals
Lone Voice – I’m Not
Great post Craig, I do like reading you although not always agreeing with you.
Craig I agree with you – and not because I am going Baaaa! I have been a daily visitor on an open forum and aside from the mindless trolling that goes on there are some who engage in so called ‘debate’ and in doing so as you say – they become self-righteous, pigheaded clones. They refute each others ‘evidence’ and argument with all manner of comment which all often boils over into little more than a slanging match. The worst offenders in my experience are the Christians vs the atheists. They are as bad as each other. Not a nice place to visit for morning coffee. Fortunately I have also been witness to some really sensible open discussions, respectful debate and general camaraderie on the same discussion boards so I still frequent them…I just got really good at picking which threads not to attend to…I need to be around positive influences and choosing the right threads to read and engage in became part of that process. In this I have made some wonderful online friends and broadened my understanding of the world.
Cheers – Jen from Mildura
Hi Craig,
This is an interesting post for me. I completely agree with your comments but not because I blindly think you’re right. Independent thinking is something that we need to practice daily. I also practice it with my kids so they can learn to challenge the world and not just accept what is put to them….problem is, 8 year olds pretty much know everything!
Having grown up in a family where opinions were not invited, it’s quite a job to retrain yourself to challenge the world. I come across plenty of people who just tell you how it is and don’t want to be questioned – it’s kinda fun to challenge them as often there’s alot crap in there.
Have a great day!
Janice
Very funny k-belle.
Good idea that. You don’t wanna wear yourself out with all that independant thought!
( )
Hi Anon 1.
You mean I was w..w..wr..wrong?
Good typo spotting by you – thanks!
You’re my new editor. Congratulations – the pay’s lousy and the conditions are poor but other than that it’s all good!
( )
Hey Narnie – thanks for sharing your thoughts – ( )
Hi jmartin – you’re welcome. Enjoy your day ( )
Hi Terry – I love, love, love Monty Python.
It’s just a flesh wound.
Hi Jen – thanks for dropping by and sharing – cheers ( )
Hi Janice – your ideas, thoughts, opinions and revelations are just as important as anyone’s. And I mean ANYONE. You need to know that. Nobody is more or less significant than anyone else. Don’t let other people rob you of the opportunity learn, grow, express and achieve as you could.
( )
You’re always right oh wise one, I don’t need to question it.
Are you the mesiah or just a naughty little boy? lol
With each post you write, I swear you exude more and more humility. You’re open mindedness inspires me to be more open minded.
This message rang loud and clear for me – definitely something I needed to hear and have a think about.
Thanks Craig ()
Oh stop it Deb. I’m blushing.
Too funny ( )
“…You’re my new editor. Congratulations – the pay’s lousy and the conditions are poor but other than that it’s all good!”
I’ll take the job Sir! Never mind the lousy pay and poor conditions…I only work when I feel like it anyhow! ;-P
P.S. You weren’t w..w..w..wrong – just out of context! (surely not the first time?)
You’re welcome Triple G ( )
Aaaah Anon 1.
1. Thanks for taking the position. You were at the front of a very short queue!
2. Some would say my whole existence is out of context!
( )
Hi Craig. I have been a lurker of your site for a while and this post has flushed me out to comment. Thank you for your stimulating and refreshing comments today. Your descriptions of cults and organisations with very little independent thought while demanding compliance, obedience, commitment and money is all too familiar to me. I have removed myself from the environment now however am convinced this experience had a significantly negative impact on my health and wellbeing. Since making the break from this environment, I have never been happier, I have lost over 30kgs, and feel like I’m becoming more myself every day.
May your kind increase, Craig. Well said.
C
Hmm, Craig, an interseting topic this morning, I don’t think I’ve responed like this before but have thoughts flicking around my head, so feel abit compelled to. I have wondered about this before, it’s abit philosophical isn’t it.
Is independent thought REALLY possible? We are so heavily influenced and shaped by all those areas you mentioned (family, friends, peers, culture, dominant ways of doing and being), if this is the case, should we just choose wisely, who we think are good people to be infuenced and shaped by??? Is it an arrogant claim that we are ‘free thinkers’, should we give credit where credit is due and acknowledge what other thinkers before us we have been influenced by? It’s just a question! My other point is that I don’t think ‘kids today’ (just joking- many of us really) have been taught how to think. Silly as that may sound. It’s so much easier to just accept what we are told, read, experience and not process them- easier for the teachers too. How often are we challenged to take the given information, process it and come back with some critical analysis (for want of a better word, feel like I am back in year 12 English).
Sigh, now my brain hurts I had better go make the beds, do the dishes, do those things ‘stay at homes mums’ get paid to do (not)!
Hi C.
Not to be confused with high C (music joke).
Glad you crept out of the shadows and great to hear your story – well done.
Your first hug – ( )
Hi Jayber.
Hmmm. Yes, I did open a can of worms didn’t I?
1. Yes independant thought is possible – totally (but maybe that’s just my truth!!)
2. Yes we will always be influenced by others – but we can determine how those influences affect and mould us (or don’t mould us).
3. Free thinking begins with the realisation that there is more than what you’ve been told or exposed to…
It’s a very provocative and debatable topic… but that’s what we love. I like making you think
( )
Speaking of cans of worms…when are you gonna come Stateside and make a personal appearance for your American crew?
… We have bigger and slimier worms for you to play with out here!
Part of what I meant was that we are individuals who make up a community and to some extent we can chose what communities we hang around in (who we be influenced by_(like this one compared to the blog you read yesterday) and there is something to be said for ‘corparate thinking’, you know ‘the whole is more than the sums of its parts’ stuff. With you point 3, I think that often we need to be shown that by a mentor, elder whatever, maybe it’s the entrapeuners of the world that work it out for themselves! (I think that’s what I was referring to when talking about learning to think.
Love a conversation like this!
Hello Anon.
I’m in the process negotiating to run a one-day RYL (Renovate Your Life) program in California some time later this year… hopefully this will happen. A few bridges to cross yet.
The challenge with me doing public gigs (over there) is that I have a very (very) small profile in the States.. (Craig Who?) and organising things from a million miles away ain’t so simple…
Imagine if I ran a workshop and it was just you and me!
I am back and forth from the States often(ish) so next time I’m over I’ll organise a social get-together – could be tricky with so many people from so many states.. but we’ll do our best.
You get together a few hundred of your closest friends and I’ll come and do a workshop just for you!
( )
Jayber… my brain hurts. But I’m hearin’ ya. ( )
Just a bit of useless information for anon. Australia has the biggest worm in the world the Giant Gippsland Earthworm – Megascolides australis. There’s a worm found in Oregon that comes in as second best.
We have the best of everything here not just the best motivator/blogger. lol
The following thoughts popped into my mind about this post. Thinking about an “issue” from different viewpoints is a skill that isn’t widely taught, life is not black and white – it’s many shades of grey, it can take an enourmous effort to have an open mind away from the “cultural” teachings that one receives, tempering one’s “gut reaction” to a news story is another skill that’s not taught, and finally that it’s easier to be vitriolic when typing away at a keyboard and posting on a forum/commenting on a blog while using a non-de-plume.
Thanks Debstar.
I’m well aware Australia has the best of everything.
All I’m asking is that you share the love around….
Hi C.H
You are so popular today.
Ive even enjoyed reading what everybody else has got to say.
Enjoy your week.
Toodles
You must all think for yourselves!
Yes! We must all think for ourselves!
Classic stuff.
I think there are a lot of people who are interested and agree with your thoughts Craig (and I’m not saying that’s a bad thing – I too have become a regular dropper-in of your blog) – I just believe we should always gather as many perspectives as we can and continue to trial them ‘actively’ so as to constantly test what we think we should think. We dont want to have to start culling the ‘sheep’ in our country too…….baaaah!!!!!
Wow, what was in your weaties this morning?
I really appreciated everything you had to say Craig, and you have underpinned everything with just the right dose of humility.
I do believe you are asking us to really think about why we are so keen to back ourselves about our beliefs in spite our ignorances and lack of experience.
I think some folk are trying to reposition themselves in the light of things they have maybe stopped believing or think differently about, but haven’t yet realised how to do this without being hypercritical.- That is part of the learning experience too I believe.
I wonder if we ever get there?
But as you said, well then we’d be dead wouldn’t we?
We have the world’s biggest worm? Do we really want that title Deb? LOL!
( )
Hi Ben – “non-de-plume”
Nice.
I agree with you.
Cheers
I’m hearin’ you Goal Power…
Cheesecake Briar.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts…
( )
Hey Craig,
I fully agree that we need to be independant thinkers. We need to sift all that we take in and allow it to resonate or challenge our truth/beliefs/values. I also think that within our independant thinking we are influenced by the things around us and if this was not so then you may as well shut up cause I would hope that your purpose is to want people to grasp the truth that they can “independantly” choose to change their lives. The question is do I want to change cause I want to be more “me” or do I want to change to be more like “you”? This if often one of the greatest stumbling blocks of true change.
Cheryl
I’m all for independent thinking, and do constantly challenge myself to question my reasons for believing, and my reasons for opposing other viewpoints. But I don’t think it’s possible to totally divorce yourself from basic programming.
Not much can change the way to evaluate information, the way you assign value to different thinking processes and types of ‘fact’. Even the idea that rational discussion precludes name-calling is (somewhat) culturally programmed. Heck, simply by using language to communicate we’re locked into pre-formulated concepts and connotations.
But then, I’m young and naive. Probably haven’t actually figured out that much yet; I only imagine I have.