Looks Like A Lesson but Isn’t
Today’s article is not so much a lesson, instructional, pep talk or philosophical discussion, as it is me thinking out loud and sharing some of my ideas, experiences and thoughts on a subject that I’ve purposely avoided for three and half years (the time this site has been in existence). Scaredy Cat, I know. I am regularly asked why I never explore or discuss religion (in general terms) here at me-dot-com. Now before you panic, don’t. There’s no need. This will not be a religious article (as such) and I have no bombshell to drop on you or religious agenda to push. So breathe easy kids.
If anything, these days I’m decidedly un-religious. If that’s a word.
This post is lengthy, so you might want to get comfortable.
Why Bother?
For the most part, I guess I’ve avoided this subject because I consider most religious discussions to be a waste of time and energy as the majority of us are relatively hard-wired when it comes to our religious beliefs. Or lack of religious beliefs, as the case may be. That is, we’re not particularly open to ‘learning’ new things, genuinely considering another theological perspective or exploring anything which might contradict, or conflict with, our current religious paradigm or world view. And, let’s be honest, most religious discussions aren’t really discussions at all – unless the participants are already batting for the same team. So to speak. And in that case, it’s probably more of a pep rally than it is a meaningful exploratory dialogue.
Excuse me, Can I try on your Kaftan?
Could you imagine a devout Christian genuinely considering the theology of his Muslim neighbour as a viable alternative, or vice-versa? Me either. Or maybe a life-long orthodox Jew weighing it all up and concluding that Catholicism is a better eternal option? What about a Jehovah’s Witness deciding that orange is his preferred colour and becoming a Hare Krishna? Of course there are always exceptions, but they are definitely not the norm.
No, as a rule, it seems that once we learn that “we’re right and all the others are wrong” (as most religions teach), it’s almost impossible to have a logical, rational and unemotional discussion or to learn another truth. After all, there’s only one truth – and we’re the proud owners of it.
Common Ground
Sarcasm aside, if there is one universal belief among the various religions of the world I guess it’s that they each believe they have the only hot-line to God. Or whatever they choose to call Him. Or Her. “Sure the others might think they are God’s chosen people, but we know we’re the real deal.”
Religious Ego
For me to believe that only I (and those in my religious group) have a monopoly on the Creator of the Universe (if there is one) and the afterlife (if there is one), would be the epitome of religious arrogance, intolerance and self-righteousness. In my opinion anyway. The more questions I ask and the more investigating I do in this area, the more I realise how little I know and what a huge role programming, conditioning, upbringing and environment play in determining our religious beliefs. Our internal reality. Did for me anyway.
If you want to see some emotion, verbal jousting, irrational behaviour and occasional violence, simply introduce religion into any group discussion next time you’re in a social setting.
The Disclaimer
Now before anyone gets defensive, reactive, angry or weird on me, let me be clear that it’s not my intention to talk anyone into, or out of, any particular theological school of thought with this post. It’s my objective to simply share a little of my history, a few ideas and to ask some relevant questions.
Growing Up
I have always been fascinated by religion. I grew up in it. I went to school in it. I was taught it from a young age. Even as a youngster, I was always asking complex and deep theological questions. I drove my folks nuts. I was curious and wanted to know what the grown-ups knew. As a member of my family, I had no choice in the matter; religion and church were simply components of the world I inhabited. Like many of you, I was told how ‘things’ worked. You know: the God thing. The heaven and hell thing. Good and bad. Punishment. Life after death. Salvation. Miracles. Eternity. Angels. Saints. Sinners. Forgiveness. Redemption.
As a youngster, I was taught that the man behind the curtain (the priest) had the ability to absolve me from my (numerous) sins. He could clear my sinful slate on God’s behalf because he was God’s chosen representative on earth. Lucky me. At the time, that was my truth. My reality. It was all I knew. I had no reason to question it.
Can You Smell Smoke?
The idea of a world beyond the one I could see, feel, touch and smell excited me, intrigued me, confused me and periodically, scared the crap out of me; especially when it came to the stuff about burning in hell for not complying with the team rules. I remember going through a stage when I would have regular nightmares about being burned to a crisp because of, among other things, my teenage-boy thoughts. Damn those pubescent hormones. Apparently when it comes to the eternal score sheet (you know, the one God keeps) thinking is the same as doing, so I was doomed for sure. Or so I believed. It’s like, one day I wasn’t interested in girls, the next day they were all I could think about.
Bloody testosterone.
I often wondered why God would give me testosterone and make girls look and smell so good and then tell me not to entertain impure thoughts. Talk about making it hard for a kid. If He had made girls look and smell like a Dugong then that phase of my development would certainly have been a lot less stressful.
Thank goodness for sport.
The Chosen
Early on I learned that I had been born into the one true religion; the only one that would give me an express ticket to heaven. If I followed the rules of course. How lucky for me. And how sad for everyone else: the deluded and misinformed majority. Oh well, I could always pray for their sinful souls. But the one who really needed the prayer was, of course, me. While my mind wanted to comply with the getting-to-heaven rules, my teenage body had an agenda of its own. Fair to say, I struggled with one or two rules in particular.
Don’t over-think that.
What Options?
As a kid, it never occurred to me that there may have been other viable options when it came to the whole spiritual journey. Or maybe that there was another truth; one that was more… er, right… for me. Or maybe that I didn’t need to have it all figured out by the time I was fifteen. Or fifty even. Or that maybe it was all rubbish. Perhaps I could even bypass religion all together. Nobody told me it was optional. It also never occurred to me that perhaps the grown-ups in my world were wrong. Why would it? Or what if – horror of horrors – there was no God? No eternal resting place? No, that just couldn’t be. There must be a heaven; it was simply too confronting and uncomfortable to consider otherwise.
Eternity 101
When they (the grown-ups) told me how the whole getting-to-heaven thing worked (what I was most interested in; it did seem like the perfect post-life destination) they didn’t add “I’m pretty sure about that” at the end of each sentence. And of course, grown-ups know more than kids and of course, they are to be trusted. Aren’t they? They know how stuff works because another grown-up taught them when they were young. And someone taught their teacher… and so on… and so on. And then I was born and it was my turn to learn the truth.
In almost a thousand articles on this site, I have never really explored or discussed religion – even though it plays such a large part in so many of our lives. And for good reason. For the most part, as a writer, I can’t win with this discussion. No matter what I write, think or believe, I will alienate a percentage of my readers because it is such an emotive and divisive topic and we’ll never all be on the same page. Yet stupidly, here I am typing.
We Believe What We Believe
Generally speaking, religion is one of the few discussions where logic, reason and objectivity are almost irrelevant; we believe what we believe because we believe what we believe. Think about it objectively and unemotionally for a moment. Try to anyway. If you were raised in a different family with totally different beliefs and culture, is it likely that you would have different beliefs to what you currently consider your non-negotiable and absolute faith? Is it likely that you might be just as certain about a completely different truth? My whole family is (insert religion of choice), therefore, so am I.
A Need to Believe
The reality is that most of us want to believe in a caring, loving, all-knowing supernatural something. Or someone. Most of us (in Western culture) call that being God. Having a ‘relationship with our creator’ (let’s not get started on the evolution versus creation debate – we’ll leave that for another day) makes us feel more comfortable, safe and secure. In our head anyway. The idea of a God-less life is unthinkable to many of us. Am I suggesting that God is not real? No, I wouldn’t dare. I am suggesting that most of us won’t consider a life without God, so we leave that option off our list. Is that okay? Yep.
The idea of considering another truth – or perhaps that what we currently believe might be wrong (or partially wrong) – makes us so uncomfortable and so defensive that we’ll do almost anything to protect our emotional investment – that is, all the time and energy we’ve spent living in our current paradigm. People who already have certain spiritual and/or religious beliefs (no, they’re not the same) don’t want to consider that maybe they’ve been misinformed, misled or scammed. It would be too painful, so they ignore the doubt (some might say logic) and continue on their way. Which is why we find many people to be critical of philosophies and/or theologies that they’ve never even explored. They are defiantly against things they know nothing about. I spoke to someone recently who told me that one of my favourite spiritual teachers is a well-meaning, but misguided fool. No surprise to learn that this particular critic has never read one single page of the “fool’s” writing. When I asked why, I was informed that he “didn’t need to”.
Of course.
Faith and Knowledge
Let’s be honest, when it comes to the God-eternity-life-death-salvation-heaven-hell thing, none of us can prove anything. Sure, we can think, believe and espouse whatever we choose – we can even quote scripture and get all self-righteous and angry about it – but we can’t actually prove anything. If we could prove it (whatever it is), then we wouldn’t need faith because we’d have knowledge. Neither would it be called religion; it would be called science.
Can you imagine approaching medicine the way we approach religion? Imagine making life-impacting decisions about the various medical treatments, drugs and life-threatening operations based purely on what we feel could be true. And imagine talking to ten medical experts who all tell you something totally different about your condition. And not only that, they also tell you that their medicine is the only medicine that can heal you and save your life. Yep, you and I live in a time when we won’t even treat an infected finger without involving science, knowledge and logic in the decision making process, but we’ll go to war and kill people if we think that’s what God wants. Well, some of us will.
Sigh.
Imagine if I was a doctor and I took the “current medical thinking and understanding” of, say, five hundred years ago and I applied it to treat people today. I’d be considered an idiot – among other things – and banned from practicing medicine. Of course, when it comes to the various fields of science, we’re expected to be open-minded. To learn new things. To ask questions. To explore. To research. To disagree. To use our intelligence and logic. And to challenge existing beliefs.
But not when it comes to religion.
Boat Rockers
When someone within a particular religious group challenges or questions the doctrine (thinking, beliefs, rules) of that particular religion (I can speak with some authority here), it’s not uncommon for them to be criticised, labelled a back-slider, marginalised, ex-communicated and sadly, in some (rare) instances, physically harmed. Questioning doctrine and independent thought are generally not things which are encouraged and supported in most religious groups – no matter what they might tell you. Unless of course, your independent thinking and searching results in your realignment with the group’s theology and rules. “Yes Brother Craig, you’re unconditionally welcome and loved here – as long as you believe what we believe.”
“Er… but wouldn’t that make it conditional?”
Where to Worship?
For some people, their place of worship will have a cross on the roof. For others, the Star of David might identify their meeting place. Some might know they’re in the right building by the statue of the Buddha in the corner and for others, their church will be defined by a sign above the front door that says Fitness First.
I have friends who are Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Evangelical Christian, Atheist and Agnostic – just to name a few. To be honest, I’m not nearly as interested in their religious beliefs as I am interested in them as people: their personality, their attitudes, their behaviours, their nature and the way they treat others. I don’t like people more or less because they do or don’t share my philosophical and theological perspectives. In fact, quite often I’m drawn to people who are nothing like me at all.
Life in the Catholic Zone
I grew up in a Catholic family, went to Catholic schools, attended a Catholic University, taught at a Catholic University, have Catholic parents (of course) and a bunch of great Catholic friends. For the most part, I enjoyed my Catholic upbringing. So, am I a Catholic now? No. I haven’t been to mass for twenty-eight years. Am I anti-Catholic? Not at all. Anti-Religion? No. Anti-church? No. Do I still ask questions and look to the sky and wonder? Sometimes.
Do I still search for meaning beyond my understanding and knowledge? Yep. Is it possible I’m totally wrong in all of this? Of course. Am I open to learn new things? Yep. Have I explored other philosophies and theologies? Plenty. Do I have it figured out yet? No. Is that okay? Yep. Is it okay that I question, doubt and disagree? Or maybe agree? Or even change my mind? Yep. Is it okay that my parents and I have different views, beliefs and philosophies? Yes, healthy even. Does it affect our relationship? Only if we allow it to.
The moment religion becomes a problem is when we try to force our opinions, ideas, beliefs, standards and behaviours onto others. Like all man-made institutions, religion can be a positive or a negative – depending on what we do with it, what it represents to us and how it impacts on our choices, behaviours and treatment of others.
Well done for making it this far.
I need to lie down.
And go to confession.
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Hi Craig. I like your honest appraisal of yourself and your beliefs/non-beliefs.
A long time ago when I was about 21 I would not have enjoyed reading your comments so much. I was a Born-Again prat who honestly believed I had a mandate to thrust my ideas forward and annoy the hell out of anyone and everyone. There’s a few about : )
Now that I’m in my 40′s I guess you could say I have mellowed a good deal. I still believe what I believe, but I have adjusted my attitude, and have gotten used to being a part of humanity .
What you say about pushing our ideas on others is correct.
I’m ok with telling people about what it is I believe, and maybe helping them to see what I see, if that is where they are at in life, but I certainly know I don’t have a right to do it willy-nilly, nor to prove a point at every opportunity.
Anyway for what its worth, I love people, and I love to find out what makes them/us tick, like you I guess. I haven’t got everything figured out either, I just have a drive to to and be the best I can while I have lungs to breathe and a brain to think.
Well put it this way, something is there, even nothing and we will find out eventually.
I do agree with the it happened 5000 or whatever years ago and it is brought into the present. But don’t we do that anyway with other things? We can’t leave any bit of our past behind, but with all the postings and topics, we do know, especially after that dystiny one, that it IS possible to change something. The core things lie in others not us. If people want to believe in the teachings of Christ that’s fine, some things in the bible are relevent to today. But it is a choice to me to follow a religion and part of that is question beliefs etc.
New age thinking and churches may not be religions as such in some’s books, but we question them. I’m both a buddhist and catholic, lapsed in both of them, but I have questioned both their doctrines. For example, I do not believe in the people come into your life for a reason/season crap, nor in the concept that humans and animals are here to suffer. Same with Catholics, I am one but support safe abortion. Right or wrong, don’t know, but point here is that we will question religion and have every right to.
Very thought-provoking stuff, Craig, and I certainly did relate as a fellow very lapsed Catholic!
The article put me in mind of a quote I once read that has been attributed to various people: “Fighting war over religion is like fighting over who has a better imaginary friend.” How true!
Craig, I have been on a similar journey to yours, and have been the one criticised for questioning doctrine. I feel I have come to a point now that as much as I respect the religious beliefs of various “groups” (for lack of a better term at this time) and am happy to agree/disagree with various stances etc, I am now more concerned with the spirituality of a person – and how I can learn from others through engaging with this. There is so much we can learn when we truly listen to the inner person when our religious blinders are taken off. I feel free now. Good on you for putting forward such a thought provoking piece.
Hi Craig,
Thanks for such a frank and thorough examination of a very important topic. This post should be recommended reading for every young adult (like that’s going to happen).
Of course, organised religions can vary widely in their degree of rigidity and orthodoxy – and there are also different ‘wings’ within the separate religions. However, most organised religions demonstrate the following characteristics to some extent:
• A distinct language of clichés which allows no room for nuance, ambiguity or ambivalence. It also makes it easier to recognise ‘outsiders’ or those new to the faith.
• The subjugation of the individual’s needs to those of the group
• The isolation, rejection or humiliation of those who express ideas or interpretations which are incompatible with the accepted doctrine.
• Disfellowship of members whose life-situation illustrates a lapse in judgement (eg: divorce, an unauthorised occupation, pregnancy outside of marriage) lest the member lead others astray
• Conformity of dress
• Distinct and exclusive greetings: ‘Brother-Husband’, ‘Sister-Wife’, ‘Bishop ..’
• Belief in a Utopia to come; the individual must sacrifice happiness now in order to be rewarded in the future
• Compulsory attendance of group meetings and ceremonies
• Transparency to the group – public or ‘private’ confessions
• Belief that all outsiders/nonbelievers are sadly misinformed and condemned
• Unswerving faith in the infallibility and omnipotence of a higher entity
• Distrust of one’s self as a flawed being whose behaviour must be kept in check by the group
• Criticism of challenges to doctrine as demonstrating a lack of faith. If faith is ‘belief in things unseen’ then surely demanding evidence is unnecessary and a sign that one is ‘spiritually sick’.
• Control of the dissemination of information – publications, media, ‘approved’ texts.
These characteristics are easily recognisable in many organised religions today but they are also features of totalitarian regimes: Stalin’s USSR, Communist China, Nazi Germany to name a few. It is not necessarily the belief itself that causes grief – most religious beliefs in their purest form are beautiful. Rather, it is the structure and methods of the organisation that uses those beliefs to justify its existence that can cause untold pain and misery for its members.
At the moment, I am completely disillusioned with organised religion. Disillusionment being, of course, the letting go of one’s illusions, the breaking free from the beliefs under which one has interpreted one’s world.
I’m not sure what I believe right now but I am certain that I will never, ever allow myself to be a blind, miserable follower again.
Thanks for the reminder of how far I have come.
Christina xxx
One of the incredible things about our Creator is the right to choose our beliefs. I was 41 when I really started to question what I had been ‘taught’ and pushed to believe through repeated lifestyle and practice (my father was a minister). Until age 41, I believe that if I didn’t not only believe that way but practice it, I was rejecting God, but to some degree parents. Parents rarely accept questions that are about God and faith… What I realize was it was not only my right but one that God gives to every person… not only the right to choose but the responsibility to choose belief and practice. That was life changing for me personally, because the journey of personal faith, (regardless of what that is) is individual. Will it be right, or wrong? That seems to be the fear. If I am not on ‘auto-pilot’, doing what I saw and hear, will I lose out? That is what I had to decide. The great thing about any love relationship is to be full and vibrant, it must be a choice. I want not want a forced, or force out of fear love. I do not believe God wants that from us. Free will is such a great, and awesome gift…
Very impressive for you to “come out” like that, and I really like how you make your points.
It’s important for those of us who seek a truth other than what’s fed to us by religion to know that we’re not alone. I have heard many stories — and experienced it myself! — where people discovered that their longtime friends were atheist/agnostic/questioning religion but never brought it up because they were afraid of offending the other person (which kind of goes back to your article of “Letting Go of the Need to be Liked”)
Craig – interesting post. Congratulations on the diplomatic tone too!
I think that, more than anything, our western culture has left us all a bit too literal when it comes to spiritual matters. Your point on medicine is a case in point – the genius of western thought has been to develop science and control our environment with it. The problem happens when we try and apply the same ‘black/white’, ‘up/down’ , ‘right/wrong’ dichotomy onto our search for meaning. Meaning/religion/spirituality just doesn’t work that way. It never has and never will.
It seems to me that life needs to have ambiguity within it for it to have any meaning (does that even make sense?). I think what I mean to say is, that once you stop asking questions and reach unwavering conclusions then you shut yourself off to seeing things. This uncertainty provides a certain sensitivity and vitality.
Thanks for sharing this, despite your aversion to religious topics. You’ve clearly put a lot of thought into the question of how to handle less-religious adulthood after a deeply religious childhood, and I think a lot of us in similar situations will relate.
What a reminder of the Catholic church of my youth. It was so dark, and the sermons on eternal punishment in Hell reverberated from the cold stone and marble into my worst dreams.
When I got older and stopped going to church, I also did a lot of searching.
I sort of came full circle at one point after moving far from home and visiting a Catholic church in the village. There was the most loving priest who brought out the beauty of the faith, and seemed to apologize for the whole Hell scenario.
I couldn’t believe a priest could be so…cool!
He was the most nonjudgemental person I’ve ever met. I found myself going every Sunday, because I always left feeling totally uplifted. That’s what I’d love to find again, because to me, going to church should feel that way.
Craig, I can understand your reluctance to hit this subject, but I think anyone who reads you wouldn’t be surprised by your honest appraisal.
I think you’d have made a great village priest
Hi Craig -
I always asked a lot of questions as a child and I never was satisfied with the answer that you had to have “faith.”
I was at a seminar and one of the participants asked the question whether he thought there was a God. He said it bothered him that he did not know for sure.
I liked that answer. It was -
“Since you don’t know – believe the one that is more fun.”
Also from a devout Catholic family. And grew up with the “truth” that it was the only true faith and that everyone else was going to hell.
That was the final straw that snapped. I saw so many good and kind people. Would God send them to hell?
I did not think so.
Sometimes, I go to Mass with my sister if she is visiting. And I always take communion. Just for old times sake.
And I enjoy the pomp and incense and the robes. It is familiar and reminds me of times gone by.
Such a good and thoughtful post. And, no, it was not too long.
Hooray Craig! Coming from a Jewish background scared by the Holocaust, I married a wonderful man from Northern Ireland (much to my families horror) who grew up during the worst of the troubles there. I too am more interested in people’s personalities, attitudes, behaviours, morals and the way they treat others – tolerance, appreciation and respect for our differences is too often forgotton.
Thanks Craig
J9
I love so much of what I read from you, but this one really resonated with me. I too grew up a Catholic, taught in Catholic schools. I now live in
Dubai surrounded by people of all different cultures and denominations.
And the one thing I am sure of is that there are good people in all religions, and that I don’t have to go to church to be a good person. You articulated so much of what I have been feeling and questioning since moving here. Thank you for your great and thought provoking writing.
Sincerely
Hi Craig,
Yes well this resonates well I supose like many i was brought up in a very strict catholic family (6 kids) a father who was an acolite (I cant spell so I hope you understand) a brother who was an alter boy and by the end of year 7 was at a private oposday (severe cathoilc School) where they even taught Latin..and that if I kissed a boy I was going to burn in the fires of hell…. so no doubt my high school was spend in the confessional!
Personally I am NOT a religious person but do believe in spirituallity I am not even going to go into the different philiosphies, stories and beliefs but at the end of the day it is up to ‘us’ or the people involved to LIVE it NOT PREACH it, or condemn.
I mean if GOD really is this loving GOD he would not condemn but rather forgive and just move on.
I havent been to church (bar Christmas) since I was 17 and never intend to be part of a religion ..but again each to their own. What I find strange is that the Catholic Church is the richest insitution in the world … so I dont stand the judge their accoutanting or financial manageability but rather … how and when did religion or spirituality become about money$
Loved this post… you put my feelings into words for me!
Hi Craig,
This article really made me think about the paths my life may have taken based on decisions by other people. My grandparents and parents were methodists, drinking is evil, dancing not so good either and gambling well it’s all over for you. The Uniting Church evolved out of three Christian faiths including Methodist joining together. It is incredibly different to the Methodist faith, more open and accepting and very big on social justice. The congregation I am part of is of course incredibly diverse and some people have some of the rigidity of the earlier faiths but amongst the younger members we are constantly taught to question, look and not just accept. We also have an interfaith council and the different denominations of our city get together and learn about each others faith.
A close friend who is Catholic was attending the funeral of his grandmother, he shouldn’t have gone up for communion as he is gay and hadn’t been to confession before the funeral. He wouldn’t have faced the same rule within the church I attend and I was so sad he had to basically lie and pretend his partner was just a mate on such a upsetting day in his life.
What would I be like if I had grown up in another faith, would I do as I did. Grow up in church, leave church for a few years, work out who I was and what I believed and return to the church or would I be as narrow minded as a lot of religious people seem to be and as you pointed out their way is the only way. Would I have had the personal strength to question or would I have gone with the accepted doctrine out of fear of what might happen to me and social isolation.
A lot of what you teach here fits in really well with most of the teachings of the church I attend.
I am still trying to keep growing and stretching and questioning all my beliefs both religious and also the other things in life I “knew” to be true.
The timing of this blog is a bit strange in that we began our Lenten study last night and as part of a discussion our small group was having I quoted some of the things you have said here and other places about belief (not the religious one) to the group and they really liked the perspective.
Here’s to celebrating the differences between everyone and accepting them for who they are
Great article Craig – sooo, who is your favourite spiritual teacher, you mentioned above ? Personally I align with people like Wayne Dyer ( The Power of Intention – amazing book !!) and other similar philosophies. Takes you way beyond what they taught you (and still teach) when growing up catholic, doesn’t it ?
To the absolute credit of some priests however, I have heard some very motivational and uplifting sermons lately – which made me think that perhaps some of that staunch ingrain catholic thinking is starting to broaden. Sad thing is they’ll only be ”allowed” to take it so far as we have learnt here in Qld if a catholic priest goes too far outside the parameters of catholic doctrine, they are….kicked out. A wonderful man, a priest for most of his life (he now is in his 70′s) was just last year ‘defrocked’ for leading a very vibrant, charitable community in a way that did not sit well with the catholic hierarachy ( too many ‘new’ words, different rituals and practices etc..)
Thankfully this community has reformed themselves and is continuing their own practices, albeit no longer under the ”catholic umbrella”.
Good on ya for ‘talking about religion’ – you’re right it’s a ‘touchy subject’ though…
hugs,
Mon
Thank you Craig, beautifully spoken, and kindly received
)
Great post Craig.
I’m not at all religious apart from attending Sunday School when I was younger because Mum & Dad went to Church (I cant even remember what church it was). You put forth questions and thoughts that I have often pondered… I suppose it is “nice” to think that we will go to “heaven” when our lives on the big round ball end but the truth is none of the “living” will ever know the answer to that one
It saddens me that so many wars etc can be attributed to different religious beliefs, when isn’t the general gist of it “Love one another, forgiveness, and respect”.
When will we learn?
Wow, what a great post Craig….very thought provoking and risque! Gee I love your work.
Coming from a Turkish background (where 99% of the population is Muslim) I believe I was blessesd to have parents that were so left wing and anti-islam as I know I would not be the person I am today.
My mum & dad taught us that we had no religion and that our religion was to be a good person. Always be mindful of what you say, never take anything that’s not yours to keep, never be unfaithful to your loved ones and dad’s classic, “tell the truth even if you have just killed a person…”. I grew up on these beliefs and values and I am very happy that my mind was not conditioned to a certain religion as a child. As I have experienced and read, it is only as a very young child that the “teacher” drum the belief of religion into children using scare tactics etc. If it was left until the child was a young adult with choices, then I’m sure the 500 years of the same belief may be rocked.
Again, great post Mr H.
Gullu
craig
sorry to hear you see it that way….i’ve always felt that inter-faith discussions are important….enlightening….and constructive.
you just need to learn to discuss the topics while listening — and learning from — one another
markie
If you’d like an interesting image of what the next life may or may not hold, read Anthony Borgia’s “Life In The World Unseen”. It’s a quite old (so you won’t get it at Dymocks), very descriptive account (if you choose to believe) of what lies ahead. You can get the text over the internet however .. just do a search.
Why do I choose to believe it? Same as Corinne said – because it gives me a great feeling! Because it guides me toward living this life in a better way, being truer to myself and kinder to others.
So does it matter whether it’s actually true or not? I don’t think so. I believe that’s where the beauty of religion or spirituality lies. Does it make you feel empowered? Help you take responsibility for your own life? Inspire you to be a better person in this world? Then I don’t care what label you put on it .. it’s a good thing.
I can understand why you were being a scardy cat and not raising the religious subject for 31/2 years, so well done Craig for getting out of your comfort zone, and look at the reward; a thought provoking article with well thought out responses (not a barage of abuse which could have been the case).
Being raised a Catholic, more for an identiy than anything else I think. I was lucky enough to be exposed to other religions when we moved to Malaysia. I was 15 at the time and it gave me a great appreciation, at such an influencial age, of different beliefs and the fact no matter what faith a person follows it is the person, their attitude and kindness to others that is important.
Hi Guys – thanks for all your thoughtful and respectful responses. It could have been ugly…
Hey,
long time lurker, first time at commenting.
I’m still shuffling down most of my responses to the post, so maybe only a couple of points at this stage – I’m more accustomed to discussing these things in face to face conversations.
I’ve found that most people tend to react strongly to the matter of religious discussion because the stakes of the the outcome are pretty darn high. If I get it right, or get it wrong, particularly for people coming from a faith perspective, the outcome is significant. For practising Christians, the promise of salvation is no small thing. So of course people have a perspective that they must cling to, for the sake of their life.
Yes, I was ‘told’ how things work. And always have had a sneaking suspicion that there was more than what we humans were trying to explain. Mind you, I learnt at a young age who among my faith community could cope with my wonderings, and who would be freaked out by them. A friend of mine, when I was studying theology formally, would often caution me about the human arrogance (for want of a better word) of attempting to describe and point toward the infinite with finite human language.
Sometimes we need the language of poetry, not definition.
Great post and discussion.
We are surrounded by the three major Christian branches in our family – Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox. Throw in a few other more ‘new wave’ versions of Christianity and we’ve got most of that ‘side’ of religion covered. My mother and father are different branches of Christianity.
We (my husband and I and kids) are not regular church goers but I’m a firm believer of ‘do unto others’ and living my life as a ‘good’ person with integrity. That’s what we try to teach our kids.
I have relatives that go to church at least once a week and some of them are (sadly) hypocritical and not very Christian-like at all.
So being a good person is not confined to religious people.
Had to laugh at your last sentence re: confession – do you watch ’30 Rock’? Here’s my favourite bit when Jack Donaghy (the staunch Republican Network Exec) discusses his ‘Catholic’ guilt
————————————————————————
Tracy Jordan: Hey, did you hear the good news, J.D.? I’m Irish Catholic now, like you, Regis, and the Pope.
Jack Donaghy: Oh, no you’re not. The church already has enough lawsuits.
Tracy Jordan: See, I can screw up now, and then just go to confession. No longer do I have to throw my parties in international waters.
Jack Donaghy: That’s not how it works, Tracy. Even though there is the whole confession thing, that’s no free pass, because there is a crushing guilt that comes with being a Catholic. Whether things are good or bad or you’re simply… eating tacos in the park, there is always the crushing guilt.
Tracy Jordan: I don’t think I want that. I’m out.
[Jack turns to leave]
Jack Donaghy: [to himself] Somehow, I feel oddly guilty about that.
[Jack crosses himself]
Beautifully written…I am an ex-JW, but prefer to think of myself as a NON JW! Much more liberating!! I was ex-communicated and cut off from my extended family and friends, but thankfully supported by my immediate family.
All because I made a very personal choice in my life at a time when I needed help more than anything else.
Well, I am happy now things went the way they did, or I may never have discovered I even had any personal power!!
Great post, Craig. I’m so profoundly grateful for it because it seems like your readers are actually listening to your reasoning instead of getting into a giant theological war (which is usually what happens, IME).
Kudos for doing this well and for having the guts to take it on.
Thanks and welldone on this post…….I am an un-religious person who believes in peace and love for all humanity. I say live and let live. I see the good in everyone and only wish good things for most people. My belief is that some religions (not all) provoke hate which have lead to many wars in our history and I am so grateful not to be a part of that. My parents especially my mum taught me to be open minded to many things. I am not against anyone who is religious, I respect their decisions as I would expect them to respect mine. We all live in this world seeking something anything and goodluck to people who find that something whichever way they find it. Thanks, no disrespect to anyone, from a lurker form wayback.
aah religion! love it always been interested in it – love your take on it… maybe cos that’s the way i think too. was brought up catholic and although i believe in God ( i guess i choose to cos i don’t like the alternative) i don’t believe in constructed religion. i think man made religion to control people. i could talk all day about this but i won’t.
thanks Craig for posting it xx